When I was reading a post by Cro yesterday morning a comment was made:
"As someone with a vast store of general knowledge in my bonce, I rather like the mental exercise that some TV quiz shows provide - including "The Chase", "Mastermind" and "University Challenge".....but I dislike slow-moving and banal quiz shows in which they spend more time guffawing than posing proper quiz questions."
Cro responded that it's the latter type that now seem to be proliferating and that he recently watched part of a Mastermind 'Celebrities', which was simply appalling. One contestant managed to obtain 5 or 6 (he thought) points from his two lots of questions.
The follow up comment was: "Normally 'Celebrity' means 'as thick as a plank' ".
One thing I do not like is people assuming that a lack of stored trivial (or any) knowledge is the same as being 'thick'. It smacks of arrogance.
When I was reading law I was told that I would never get good exam marks because I couldn't remember all the case names, regnal years and so on. It's true. I can't. As anyone who reads this blog knows, I have an appalling memory and always have had.
What I could do, and was complimented for my ability at, was to analyse the issues. Given the fact that in 20 years of advocating in planning inquiries I only lost one case I advised was winnable, I am satisfied that I'm not thick.
Doubtless there are many people in my life who have regarded my appalling memory and complete lack of interest in storing trivia as 'being thick'. Fortunately there are others who hold a different view.
The "thick as a plank" celebrity comment was questionable. A bit like dumb blondes. Like you I don't like generalisations. Though am not surprised considering who that came from. Please strike the last sentence off the record.
ReplyDeleteYears ago I occasionally watched University Challenge. Not because of the quiz as I don't feel the need to prove anything. But because I adore Jeremy Paxman. Few people are able to sneer under their breath as politely as he does whilst fully conveying disdain. Which is what made him such a great Newsnight presenter.
I agree with you: Storing trivia, the immaterial, who cares. Whatever sticks.By way of example, I have an almost annoying capacity to remember numbers. Which,and here comes the punchline, is pointless, useless (other than 999). I can play a whole Mozart or Beethoven in my head without switching on a music devise - no doubt useful should I ever find myself stranded on a desert island. Imagine the fun neurologists have trying to identify on which synapses we fire, individually.
Sun is shining,
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Ursula, I think in the past I have mentioned that my maternal uncle could read complete pages of school text books when he was in his 90s. I hope no one misunderstands me. I would absolutely love to have your ability to memorise whole musical works. In fact whole sentences would be a good start!
DeleteGoing on celebrity mastermind is just inviting the snide comments. Having said that, it is easy for people who never put themselves out of their comfort zone to criticize those who do challenge themselves and take things they are less likely to succeed at. I compliment you on your legal career - mine was steadfastly non-contentious and advocating would have been well out of my comfort zone.
ReplyDeleteTigger, I absolutely agree with your comfort zone comment. I should add that I wasn't a practising lawyer because I read law in England and then came to Scotland and never read Scots Law. However as I worked in local government and had a great deal of planning experience I ended up doing all the authority's planning legal work (English and Scots planning law being almost the same) in addition to being an ordinary bureaucrat. One of the advantages of working in a small local authority.
DeleteThank you Graham. I agree with every word you said here from the very beginning to the very end. You have made my day for reasons you may not know but suffice to say you have made me happy.
ReplyDeleteRachel, you are correct in that I do not know the reasons. However, the fact that I have made your day is reward enough.
DeleteYou aren't thick Graham. This is PhD level trolling. I am happier for it.
ReplyDelete😉
DeleteMaybe you could get "Hard Quiz" from the Australian ABC TV.
ReplyDeleteThat, Born and Bred, is not something I'm likely to be able to pick up.
DeleteWe love it quick hard questions with loads of humour thrown in.
DeleteSounds good, Diane.
DeleteThere seems to be little that is less indicative of intelligence than the sheer accumulation of trivia. The understanding and application of knowledge is the key, not a storehouse of unrelated facts. But it is trivia that so often appeals to people; hence the popularity of books such as "The Guinness Book of World Records." Now let me see if I can correctly recite the K numbers of all of Mozart's works!
ReplyDeleteThat's it in a nutshell, David.
DeleteI must admit to feeling amused and superior when a question came up on Who Wants To Be A Millionaire about which word links a mammal with a bishop or archbishop: A, Carnivore; B, Rodent; C, Primate; D, Marsupial, and the poor contestant answered (d).
ReplyDeleteI would have joined you, Tasker.
DeleteHello, my name is Bob and I’m a trivia addict, or perhaps it is more accurate to say that after many years of addiction I am now a self-confessed recovering trivia addict. The longest journey begins with a single step, and while I still enjoy watching Jeopardy! and knowing answers the real contestants don’t, I no longer list them in my blogposts. For two reasons. Emma Springfield in northwest Iowa called me obsessed (which stung) and I heard a talk on the semantic brain (left) versus the episodic brain (right) which registered. I shall count this post as an important part of my therapy. I’m only half joking.
ReplyDeleteGraham, I appreciate you.
Well, Bob, I can't claim to be only half laughing. I think your response is brilliant. I laughed properly. I would be very happy if I had a retentive memory for things that matter to me. I'm still not sure that I'd have any desire to remember 'trivia' but I might if for no other reason than I've spent a lifetime being ridiculed for not having such a memory. I shall try and look up the different sides of the brain that you mentioned.
DeleteBob, I respect you and your views. Thank you.
Imagining you as "thick" is whatever the word is for...doesn't belong on this planet. I don't lack imagination, but a very brief how to thought only turns up a silly cartoon with no caption.
ReplyDeleteHaving a less than stellar memory isn't an indicator of intelligence. I will watch Jeapardy sometimes because I think my brain needs it. Recently I notice, the first round of questions are too easy.
Congratulations on your stellar ability to evaluate cases.
Thank you very much for your supportive comment, Maywyn.
DeleteI also think that our memories are selective. We remember the things we want to. The Micro Manager remembers different things in our life. I've had global amnesia a couple of times. It's a little scary. It is well controlled .
ReplyDeleteRed, your episodes of global amnesia sound very scary but you, as always, are very matter-of-fact about them. I hope you don't have another episode.
DeleteThis can work the other way round too. I was fortunate to gain access to a very academic school, I was a Latin Scholar, and generally regarded as 'bright'. However, I was often made to feel lacking in knowledge because I didn't retain dates, or names of events, or details of trivia. I still can't!
ReplyDeleteYes, Cro, I recall that you were a Latin Scholar but there are all sorts of reasons for being made to feel stupid at school. I was not (much to my Mother's disappointment I'm sure) good at Latin or any languages. I was excellent at English Language and Literature and Maths (and geography which I loved) but went to a school where, if you were not aiming for Oxbridge, then you were a second class student.
DeleteWhen I was teaching, I made a point of making every pupil feel good about themselves. All children excel in something, and it has to be encouraged, even if it's something of little interest to everyone else.
DeleteCro, Mr Perceval was like that. He taught history. I was bottom of the class in history one year. When a pupil made a comment Mr P pointed out that I was top in three other subjects. I worshiped Mr P. You'd have done the same I imagine. That's what makes a good teacher an exceptional one.
DeleteNot being able to remember trivia or remembering how to spell words, does not reflect lack of intelligence. I and my children are all hopeless spellers but we all have degrees.(Education, Arts, Built Environment)
ReplyDeleteDiane, I can recall when I was a Prep School all that mattered was learning your weekly Collect or Epistle (which I then instantly forgot) and being able to do arithmetic and English. They also coached us relentlessly to get through the 11+ exam. However intelligence is, as you say, so much more than that.
DeleteIt often annoys me that I am able to remember lyrics of songs or can even recite entire adverts that I watched on TV as a child but can not remember some of the things I need for work, without looking at my notes. Therefore, the theory that we remember what we choose is not true for me, because if I had a choice, I would remember the work things better.
ReplyDeleteI love quizzes, as you know, but I rarely watch them on TV. My prefered way is the pub quiz at my local, but nobody knows when that will be possible again.
Meike, knowing that you are good at pub quizzes and therefore obviously have a good memory for trivia, it astonishes me that you don't remember other things too. It may be that subconsciously we remember things we love rather than things we need.
DeleteWe love the chase, I've learned some good facts since watching it. But I was the same at school, judged hopeless because I can't learn from a blackboard, I've found doing something helps me learn alot better, not everyone fits inside that square of being in a classroom I think.
ReplyDeleteYes, Amy, we are all different. We had one son who was a classroom person and went on to do a doctorate (but died just before it was awarded) and the other who, like me, hated school and left as soon as he could but has qualified as a marine engineer (amongst other things) and tours the world as the chief engineer on a huge superyacht.
DeleteHow my memory works is a mystery to me. I rarely forget a face although the associated name is a bit more difficult. I'm still chuckling about passing a young man at the lodge and saying hello, I know you from somewhere, don't I? To which he replied, "I'm your doctor." The way I look at it is it's more important for him to have a good memory than it is for me. I think we make our lives around our strengths and learn to make adjustments for our weaknesses.
ReplyDeletePauline, I read that just after I woke up and several hours later I'm still laughing when I thing about it. Your way of looking at it is perfect, of course. I wish I could say that I've learned to make my life around my strengths, partly because I'm not sure I even know what many of them are - assuming there are some, of course.
DeleteI've never considered you to be "thick" or forgetful, Graham. Each one of us stores away information that suits us, the individual. One's life differs from that of another, and that alone affects what one stores in the mind...in my opinion.
ReplyDeleteI do enjoy watching "The Chase"...and openly admit I am guilty of watching the Aussie version each afternoon...Monday to Friday! :)
That's kind of you, Lee. I've never seen 'The Chase' but I have seen it mentioned as being eminently watchable.
DeleteAnyone who compares themselves to a TV show to gauge mental acuity is already on the wrong path. Anyone who knows you for five minutes, GB, knows you're a smart cookie, and what's even more important, you're a kind and thoughtful person. Without those last two, smarts don't mean a hill of beans.
ReplyDeleteAs for memory in general, I have always had a brain that is capable of remembering what I need it to during times of stress (school tests, etc.) but it quickly deletes information that is not utilized on a regular basis. I can memorize hundreds of things in advance of a test, and get 100% of the questions right, but a month later if I was asked to take that same test, it's doubtful I'd get even 70% right.
Was just having a conversation with my mom (who will turn 80 this September) and was telling her how often I tend to forget things that someone just said to me. Bear will ask me to bring him something from the kitchen, for example, and I'll go in there, see a plant that needs watering, put away a few dishes, and suddenly I can't remember what he asked me to bring him. It's so annoying!
As for celebrities, I will say that there is no sweeping truth as to their smarts or "thickness"... there are many celebs who are definitely not famous because they are smart, but anyone who paints them all with a "thick brush" needs hear only one name: Kenneth Branagh. Talk about memory! He knows more Shakespeare by heart than I could dream of (and even I have several of Hamlet's soliloquies tucked away in my fevered brain)... he's got a mind like a steel trap, that one.
Thank you Marcheline. I can't believe that your Mom turns 80 this year. I did a post some many moons ago on what I called Age Related Attention Deficit Disorder. That covers your point about getting distracted when going from A to B to get something. As for celebrities they are a reflection of society in general I would suggest.
DeleteUnfortunately we have a strongly entrenched education system which seems to only value achievements that can be measure din a certain way. You are certainly not thick 😱, one only has to read a couple of your posts to know that.
ReplyDeleteLike you, I quite like Mastermind and UC but cannot abide the shows where the host spends more time repeating themselves and showboating for the camera than actually asking questions.
Jayne, I agree wholeheartedly about our general education system. Thank you for the compliment too.
DeleteI totally agree that in most contexts, the ability to analyse is far more important than memorizing facts that can easily be looked up if needed. I do watch certain (Swedish) quiz shows, sometimes, but I would not volunteer to take part... Some people say I have a good memory, but that's really only for "some" things. I'm quite hopeless when it comes to quick answers to typical "mixed trivia" quiz questions.
ReplyDeleteMonica, the fact that you can recall chosen things, like, for instance, languages is a wonderful asset in life.
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