When we bought our first house on Lewis we moved in in February 1976. I had already been here for 3 months. I, and a colleague, had been boarding with Mrs Thompson (or was it Thomson) in Stornoway. Mrs Thompson appeared to know everyone on Lewis and certainly was an excellent person to tutor my colleague and I in the ways of the Stornoway world that we might otherwise have missed out on. There didn't appear to be anyone nor anything that Mrs Thompson didn't know and we were the beneficiaries of that knowledge in the three months I lived there.
The first, and most important lesson, was that before any food or drink was taken at any time grace was said. Mr Thompson's graces could be very long. It was not unusual, therefore, for our evening supper cup of tea and Scotch pancakes to go cold whilst the grace was said. Mrs Thompson always quietly took our tea away and refilled the cups with a hot brew. However, occasionally, there would be a gap between the supper being laid before us and the grace being said. Occasionally without thinking my colleague or I would take a bite of the pancake. We would then have to sit there for a long time with this morsel in our mouth frightened to chew and unable to swallow. Those were the longest graces.
I remember when I lived in North East Scotland there was a little chapel that was very busy on Sundays. I kept out of sight with my blinds nearly down, getting in some extra quiet hours at work in my office.
ReplyDeleteTasker, the wrath of the community would have descended if I, a public servant, had worked on a Sunday - even in my own garden. My time of Lewis would have been short. You have reminded me of some more Lewis Memories.
DeleteThank you for sharing a part of your delightful history.
ReplyDeleteMaywyn, that was originally going to be the opening of a post about gardening on Lewis until I realised it was quite enough for a post of it's own.
Delete1976...That's forty four years ago. A long time. Looking forward to more Lewis memories.
ReplyDeleteYP, I arrived on Lewis 45 years ago today.
DeleteSo how are your graces today? Are they long? Good memories.
ReplyDeleteRed, I'm afraid that it is a long time since I said The Grace before a meal. However I have sat through a few even recently before a wee strupach during the day.
DeleteWhen the pancake is getting cold in your hand, and you're gasping for that cup of tea, you know the grace is a wee bit Calvinist.
ReplyDeleteI'll be testing the next one personally.
I'm coming to Yorky's neck of the woods. Sheffield Presbyterian Church, Attercliffe Common.
Fresh coffee and home baking after the service is aye welcome.
John, I can just see YP in a Presbyterian Church standing with his pinkie out supping fresh coffee.
DeleteCoffee? Only heretics imbibe Satan juice Graham! Thou hast been consorting with Goody Starbucks, Goody Costa and Goody Cafe-Nero and thou hast displeased our Maker, our Lord, our Judge! Prepare to meet thy doom!
DeleteOf course, YP, you're right. Sheffield PC would not approve of the stimulating properties of the dreaded product.
DeleteI was served the best fresh coffee in a liberal church. And the best home-baked chocolate cake.
DeleteAs soon as the service was over I was approached by a friendly white-haired lady who said, *I have never seen you here before, please let me get you tea or coffee, and we have soup and sandwiches.*
The gathering was the right mix of ages, working class and professionals. All were so approachable.
Alas, I could have been amongst Unitarians, practitioners of Transcendental Meditation or Bithaka Yoga.
Neither the minister nor *management team* (too trendy to call themselves elders) were Christian in their doctrine.
And I never went back.
Too bad if you were starving! You should have had something to eat before meals...(I bet you did a few times!) Stomach rumblings are not good accompaniments to grace..very disruptive. :)
ReplyDeleteWe never said grace. And I can't recall ever being at anyone's home where it was said.
For me, 1976...is a year filled with many memories...
Take good care, Graham. :)
Lee, starving is something one never did in as a guest (even or perhaps especially a paying guest) in a Hebridean home. 1976 changed my life for ever .
DeleteAt school our graces were said in Latin. Some were of average length, but on Sundays we were treated to a longer version that seemed to last for ages. I can still remember the shorter one.
ReplyDeleteCro you have given me another Lewis Memories post. Thank you. At prep school our grace was in English. I don't recall grace being said at Grammar School because we had a self-service canteen. I believe that it was the newest and first one in Liverpool whre all the meals were made on the premises. I knew a Latin grace so perhaps it was used when I read for the Bar and 'ate dinners'.
DeleteI thank the Lord that I was brought up a heathen.
ReplyDeleteThat's the funniest line I have read today!
DeleteThank you JayCee. I, too, have just had a really good laugh. We didn't usually say grace at home so far as I can recall. It wouldn't have mattered when I arrived on Lewis. Grace was compulsory for heathens as well in a Hebridean's home.
DeleteIn my family, we were not overly religious and did not say grace before meals, but I knew a few families that did. When I was their guest, like most children, I found it interesting because it was different from home.
ReplyDeleteIn O.K.'s predominantly Roman Catholic village, hardly anyone would dare doing any visible, noisy work on a Sunday, although the number of people attending mass shrinks from year to year.
The fist person in this township (village) to put out washing on the Sabbath was a local person. The same household was also the first one to use a strimmer in the garden on the Sabbath too. The latter is still a rarity.
DeleteMy wife is of Mennonite extraction and we still visit the homes of practicing brethren and they have "silent grace." So, you come to the table, and say a silent prayer - or not - depending on your inclination. Since few people grab at the food the moment their bum hits the chair, the brief interval seems to work well. Sundays are strictly off limits for work, commercial enterprise, everything in fact other than for essential farm chores. All the Mennonite farms sell summer sausage, maple syrup, honey and produce, but all have a sign at the end of the driveway, "No Sunday Sales".
ReplyDeleteDavid, I think that the Mennonite approach is a very good one. I had friends who adopted that approach but used to say as soon as everyone sat down something like "Let us spend a minute reflecting on our good fortune." It didn't matter whether one had religious beliefs or not.
DeleteThe trouble with the silent grace is that liberal Christians do it so as not to embarrass non-believers.
DeleteAnd that is foolish.
There is nothing wrong with embarrassing non-believers.
The Gospel offends the natural man. It is meant to.
Everywhere there is media-pleasing spirituality.
It tickles the ears and changes no one.
On the other hand, John, one might be offended (certainly not embarrassed) by the rudeness of someone trying to force their beliefs on one. As an atheist I don't proselytise nor pour scorn on the beliefs of those who don't share my atheism. Nor do I expect Christians nor Muslims nor anyone else to force their beliefs on me.
DeleteCome on, Graham. If you are in someone's home for dinner, you can surely tolerate their saying Grace.
Delete*Forcing your beliefs on me* is a weasel phrase of the politically correct.
Anne Coulter said you can't have prayers in a public school any more.
In England a nurse lost her job for saying she would pray for a patient. The patient objected.
The hard-line secularists are such a bunch of entitled self-righteous people.
John you said that their silence was not to embarrass non believers and that there was nothing wrong with embarrassing non-believers. I disagree. If you wish to embarrass your guests (whether believers or non believers) then do not invite them. Your statement about forcing beliefs on one being a weasel phrase of the politically correct is inaccurate and offensive. The hard-line religious bigots are such a bunch of entitled self-righteous people. It works both ways.
DeleteHow can ye be embarrassed by something you believe is a fairytale? A harmless wee prayer?
DeleteThe cultural Left has won. It has determined not just WHAT we can discuss, but the WAY we discuss it.
Soon churches which do not play by the new rules will fined. Ministers jailed.
Are you ready for what's coming?
J.K. Rowling declared a non person? Gender-neutral pronouns imposed by the state as in Canada?
The only bigots I hear are in the militant mosques and they spout real, violent hatred. Unchecked. Unstopped.
Nobody in the West is having Christian beliefs imposed on them.
Why are the secularists suddenly so sensitive and easily affronted?
John, this blog is not a vehicle for extreme views. Please do not overstay your welcome here.
DeleteGraham, you are a refined, humane, and erudite man with a winning sense of humour.
DeleteHow do you think it makes me feel to have upset you?
There must have been a paradigm shift in society that I, an old socialist in my time, have not picked up on.
What I said about mosques comes from a book, The Islamist, by Ed Hussein who exposed these mosques.
His peaceful Muslim parents who love British values were heartbroken when he got involved with these groups.
I would protest at personal risk if secular people were in any danger of being persecuted.
Jordan Peterson in Canada and Douglas Murray in England are worried about these things as well.
However I shall not trouble you again. My heartfelt good wishes.
Cro Magnon's comment reminded me that during my early school years (1960s), we did say grace (in the classroom) before going to the school canteen for lunch. But it was always a short standard prayer. In my own home, it was never practiced (my parents weren't churchgoers). In church contexts I've been in later in life, I think it has also usually been kept short. Or at least not so long as to let the tea get cold! ;)
ReplyDeleteMonica, when friends who routinely say grace dine at my house I invite the elder to say grace and he does. Otherwise now they would simply say it to themselves.
DeleteIn my youth my best friend was Southern Baptist, very big on prayer. When eating at her home I was always nervous because the children were often asked to lead the prayer before eating. I was terrified I'd be asked to do this and would not know what to say so I memorized a short prayer and recited it to myself before sitting down just in case.
ReplyDeleteJill, unfortunately, as I will post about later, a short grace would not have sufficed here.
Deleteoh dear, respect was so different wasn't it back then? The things we did and didn't dare to do. I'm interested about Scottish pancakes though?!
ReplyDeleteRight, Amy, as another commenter has asked about them I shall do a post on them.
DeleteStrangely enough, the grace I still use was borrowed from a children's TV show and was not outwardly religious: "for our family, friends and food we say thank you"
ReplyDeleteThe tea wouldn't go cold while we said that, especially if we raced through as thoughtless, hungry minions 😊
Kylie, that grace is not too far away from the grace used in my childhood, even if not in my own home.
DeleteWere you a bureaucrat on Lewis?
ReplyDeleteI was indeed, Rachel. That and many other things.
DeleteDo you think that to “say grace” and to “ask a blessing” and to “return thanks” are different things or the same thing? They seem to me to be three different activities reflecting three different mindsets as regards praying, not merely three different linguistic ways to describe the same thing. I’d love to get your take on this.
ReplyDeleteYour question is properly addressed to Graham who kindly permits my comments.
DeleteGrace for the Christ-centred person has a unity. The creature thanks the Creator, the Lord's received thanks is the blessing.
The God-fearer can bow her head in silence. The humanist may just respect the belief of the host.
Those of who have faith have a shared experience with those who have no faith: the fate of the hungry, starving, and dying.
Bob, I think that your question raises serious academic points. The thing that graces have in common - generally - is thanking a deity be it Buddha (grace in Buddhism is unusual) or God in his many Christian and, eg, Hindu forms. If you ask a blessing then in the Scottish Free Churches they would call the act of asking blessings (which is what they do in great depth) 'saying grace'. Many conventional graces give thanks. For example Burns' Selkirk Grace which is very commonly used at dinners in Scotland is
Delete"Some hae meat, and canna eat
And some wad eat that want it:
But we hae meat and we can eat,
And sae the Lord be thankit."
In short in the time I've given to this I've come to the conclusion that the three are so closely interwoven that they are not really three different mindsets. A thesis on the subject might come to a different conclusion.
All righty, prayers aside, what is this Scottish pancake thing, and why would you be eating it at night instead of for breakfast? INTRIGUED does not begin to describe me!
ReplyDeleteMarcheline, I shall do a post of the Scottish pancake in due course.
DeleteHow interesting! It sounds like some I used to know in Northern Ireland. That was a long time ago. I wonder if grace is still said so faithfully now?
ReplyDeleteJenny, the older generations who were brought up here still tend to say grace. However church attendances have plummeted and, I suspect, along with that will be the saying of grace.
DeleteMrs Thompson, her knowledge and advice to newcomers would have been invaluable as you quite quickly realized.
ReplyDeleteAs for grace it has taken me some time to remember the short version we said three times a day at boarding school.
Then there is the irreverent version:
Two, four, six, eight,
bog in, don't wait...
Mrs T. most certainly would not have approved of that one!
Alphie
Alphie, that made me smile. No if I tried that I'd definitely have been drummed out of the Brownies (as a friend used to say).
DeleteIn my childhood home a short standard grace (around 20 words) was always said before our evening meal and mid-day meal on Sundays. Breakfast was a bit of a free for all with so many kids on different schedules. As you know there were 12 of us. We took it in turns to say the grace and took great care not to gallop through it as that would mean waiting to eat until everyone else was finished. It was about the blessing of our food only. I remember eating for the first time with a family whose grace before a meal went on and on about several named family members, several named neighbours, and, to my consternation, even the weather and me as a special guest. I didn't notice them even mention the meal. I was never again 'tricked' into eating with that lot again.
ReplyDeletePauline, your last family's grace sounds just like the ones said here although they do usually include thanks for the food.
DeleteAs Aussie postgrads travelling in the highlands in the 70s we stopped for afternoon tea with a Wee Free (?) minister, a contact of our friend’s. We weren’t used to saying grace for afternoon tea and felt totally caught out. And it did go on for a long time too as I recall.
ReplyDeleteJayview, that's very much the order of things. It would be the same today.
DeleteIn the spirit of Alphie Soup’s contribution, here’s another unacceptable one:
ReplyDeleteGood food, good meat,
Good God, let’s eat!
Seriously, though, at our house we have a short returning of thanks to God for the meal three times every day. It is not considered a strange thing to do , it is considered an appropriate thing to do.
When our college choir (Methodist) sang in various churches on our spring tours, if the church served us a meal, we would sing this blessing in four-part harmony to the traditional Doxology tune, Old 100th:
Be present at our table, Lord,
Be here and everywhere adored.
Please bless this food and grant that we
May feast in Paradise with Thee.
Bob, I wouldn't consider it a strange thing for you to do. Nor do I think it odd in those of my friends who say grace. If they are dining in my house I always invite him (it is always him) to say grace. I am a polite host. If I objected I would not invite them to dinner thus avoiding the issue.
DeleteA funny story of your first days in Lewis.
ReplyDeleteIndeed, Diane, I'm glad you saw it that way.
DeleteI just re-read this post, Graham, as I apparently missed commenting earlier. I also read all the previous comments and what a maelstrom this Lewis memory unleashed over prayers at dinner. In our now 2-person household, we often will say a few words (emphasis on that last word) of thanks that all is well and the food is good.
ReplyDeleteSorry, Beatrice, but I missed your comment in the moderation folder. I think your approach is exactly what one might expect of someone with a belief in a benevolent deity. My only personal dislike is the proselytising approach of some religions trying to impose their views when they are guests in my home. Fortunately my friends who do say grace either do so quietly to themselves or, at my invitation, to those gathered at the table.
Delete