I am not sure how many readers will know what burglary is. In case anyone does not it was, in English Law at the time of this incident, it was the act of breaking into a dwelling-house by night with intent to commit a felony. In short it was usually prosecuted where there was breaking and entering into a house to steal something at night. The term 'burglary' does not appear in Scots law. It is probably understood in most countries inheriting the English Legal System.
I was walking into the Stipendiary Magistrates Court in Liverpool back in the early '60s with a police sergeant for a case about which I remember absolutely nothing.
On the way into the courtroom we bumped into a man of completely forgettable stature and demeanour ie he would not be noticed in a crowd of three. I will refer to him as Fred. The conversation between the Sergeant and the Accused (for that was what he turned out to be) went like this:
S: What are you here for Fred?
F: The ??? job in Childwall.
S: Did you do it?
F: What do you think?
S: Can we prove it?
F: Nah. Don't think so.
S: Good luck.
In my inexperienced naive youthfulness this exchange was an eyeopener of major proportions.
I asked the Sergeant what all that was about?
"Fred is one of the good, honest old fashioned burglars. Breaks in cleanly. Finds what he wants without creating any mess and leaves. If we can prove it he accepts the punishment and if not he's on a winner." He then went on to describe what he thought about the sort of burglar the police were now concentrating on who were the scum of the earth who broke in and wrecked the house in the process of looking for anything they could sell. The difference was that for Fred and his ilk it was his trade and he was proud of it. With a bit of luck it might be days or weeks before anyone realised something was missing.
Thank you Ursula for the idea you gave me for this recollection in your comment on my last post.
I wasn't even aware that people wouldn't understand what a burglary is!
ReplyDeleteThe incident would have been an eye opener for me, too but I can see the point about an honourable kind of burglary style versus open slather
Kylie, Australian law is, as you might will imagine, originally based on English law so burglary is well known. In fact it is a statutory offence somewhere near the original English common law term. I'm sure that you wanted to know that 😂.
DeleteHonourable or not, I still would not appreciate the likes of Fred to enter my flat, with our without taking anything. It is MY flat, and nobody should come in without my invitation, full stop.
ReplyDeleteBut if I had to choose between the two types of burglary, I'd obviously go for the lesser evil.
Meike, when I was writing the quote in the post my mind wandered into wondering what you would make of it knowing your views on the subject of theft of any kind.
DeleteWell, Meike (and Rachel), let a bit of humour kick into your respective stern approaches. And make sure a bailiff never gets their foot in your door. The lily livered will need post traumatic stress syndrome counselling.
DeleteThere is honour among thieves. And sometimes thieves honour their victims (as outlined by Graham). So rather than ransacking your home, and going through your underwear drawer, they act like your picture book cat burglar, don't smash anything, just take the obvious.
Let me ask you a question, nay two:
What do you make of Robin Hood - who stole from the rich to give to the poor?
Do you think it ok, as is still practice in some countries, for your hand to be chopped off for stealing a loaf of bread?
U
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ReplyDeleteYou may like to read my reply to Librarian, Rachel. Maybe then you'll have "more to say on it".
DeleteU
I also agree with Meike. Just the thought of a stranger breaking into my house, however "cleanly" makes me feel quite ill
ReplyDeleteJC, it doesn't make you "feel quite ill". It makes you SICK. Many years ago FOS (father of son) was stalked by one of his staff. Leaving aside her breaking into our house, sleeping on my side of the bed, leaving yellow post-it-notes all over my desk, going through all my personal stuff. It was sick sick sick. And that's before knives kicked in.
DeleteThing is, fine difference, she didn't "steal" anything as such. Other than peace of mind. Time. If only she'd taken my Gucci watch.
U
JayCee, I'm not quite sure how I would react but it certainly would not be favourably.
DeleteThe topic of burglary is especially relevant to the 'corona' times. I'm afraid we're going to face
ReplyDeletea lot of theft, robbery, violence. No country and no society will be spared this.
Duta, I'm not sure that I'm quite as pessimistic as that but I fear for the future of the generations to come.
DeleteI agree with Duta.
ReplyDeleteMaywyn, my reply to Duta applies to you as well, then.
DeleteYou've reminded me of a chidren's book we had called Burglar Bill. Can't quite remember the story - something to do with unintentionally stealing a baby belonging to Burglar Betty, and that it implied that burglars were likeable.
ReplyDeleteYour BB reminds me of "The Tiger who came to tea" (Judith Kerr). To some extent it's rather nineteen fifties - though got it for the Angel mid nineties or so. The gist that this tiger (he is huge and very HUNGRY) visits a mum and her little daughter some time during the afternoon, emptying all cupboards and the fridge. It's all terribly civilized and friendly. The three of them sitting round the table. The upshot being that when Dad comes home (by now the tiger has gone), there was nothing left to eat. So they went out for a meal in a café. "And they had a lovely supper with sausages and chips and ice cream". "In the morning Sophy and her Mummy went shopping. They also bought a very big tin of Tiger Food, in case the tiger should come to tea again."
DeleteYou know what makes me sad to this day? The punchline: "But he never did."
U
Tasker, you have reminded me that burglars used to be pictured sometimes as rather spoofish rogues with a black mask and a horizontally striped shirt. I quite forgotten that.
DeleteUrsula, I can understand why you might have been reminded but The Tiger wasn't a burglar - but he was striped.
Depends how you define burglary, Graham. If someone helps themselves to the contents of your cupboards, fridge and freezer, uninvited - and being big and with claws into the bargain - I'd say that qualifies as theft even if the burgled is present and pleasant. Not that I'd ever begrudge the hungry to take what they need. Come to think of it, a mouse might be more economical than a tiger. Though dare say tigers don't breed at the rate of mice.
DeleteU
There are certainly some odd ball characters in the criminal world. Fred was one of them.
ReplyDeleteRed, I rather thought that Fred was quite ordinary.
DeleteYour old fashioned burglar has me thinking of one of Lily's books, 'Mog the Forgetful Cat', in which the burglar is wearing a eye mask and striped top. When caught by the family they have a cup of tea together while waiting for the police officer to arrive.
ReplyDeleteJules, that's interesting (see my response to Tasker above). I'm pretty sure that I've never heard of Mog the Forgetful Cat' which suggests that there must have been a predecessor in my youth but it does reinforce my feeling.
DeleteAn honest burglar...now, that's something new...and something to think about.
ReplyDeleteIf someone broke in here, I wouldn't waste time asking him if he was honest or not...I'd be two busy wielding a weapon at his head and elsewhere on his body! Either that, or tell him to help himself, and take the cobwebs with him while he's at it. :)
(I'm not being sexist by using the male gender) Percentages flow their way! :)
Lee, I would agree with you in the use of the male gender. I think female burglars were few and far between although there was one famous one (obviously I've forgotten the details and Google hasn't been much help) and a few films about them too.
DeleteMy people were burgled just once, at our home in Surrey. The burglar put a ladder against their open bedroom window, and came in whilst they were asleep (quite a feat). When it came to court the young man was actually wearing a pair of my father's shoes that he'd taken amongst other things. When my mother mentioned this to the judge, she was told that she'd be prosecuted if she said any such thing again. Very odd. He was 'sent down'.
ReplyDeleteThe last bit of that is certainly very odd, Cro.
DeleteIf I remember correctly she was threatened with 'contempt of court'.
DeleteYes, Cro, that makes sense. Well, by that I mean it's the one thing it could be - because it could have been prejudicial. The defence should have had the opportunity to challenge the statement. The prosecutor should have asked it as a question of your mother if she was a witness and then it would not have been. Having said that I assume that it was in a higher court which is unusual for a relatively minor (and I use the word in the legal sense) offence.
DeleteMy mother had her handbag stolen by a teenager "on drugs" who came into her retirement unit while she was napping and took her bag. Mum was outraged, called the police, the young offender was quickly apprehended trying the same thing on another old dear in the village. But she actually saw the young girl being interviewed by the police and took months to get over her concern for the girl who she said was, "so scruffy, so dirty and so unloved." She was distraught that there was nothing she could do to help the girl. I wish I was more like my mum.
ReplyDeletePauline, obviously I would be outraged if I were your mother. I can understand your mum's feelings on seeing the girl. I'm a coward. I'd rather that I was unaware of the perpetrator.
DeleteYes, GB - as a former cop, I find that a lot of people get robbery and burglary confused. They will come home, and find their door broken, and their TV / DVD player missing, and say "I've been robbed!" No... you've been burgled.
ReplyDeleteBurglary occurs when someone “intentionally enters [a place] without the consent of the person in lawful possession and with intent to steal or commit a felony.” Robbery occurs when someone “takes property from the person or presence of the owner by either… using force…or by threatening the imminent use of force.”
That being said, I have no sympathy for any of that crap. Someone burgled my dear mum's home (one she'd just moved into) years ago, and stole random boxes she hadn't unpacked yet... one contained her photo albums of my sister and I as children. Photos can't be replaced. It's heart breaking! And whoever did that probably just tipped it all in a bin somewhere when they discovered there wasn't anything they could make money off of. Bloody shag sacks. They also kicked mum's dog down the stairs and hurt its leg. Bastards.
Marcheline, I would have the same reaction if someone stole my photos because they irreplaceable things with only intrinsic value. Fred would never have stolen those. His type targeted things. But perhaps you never had 'Freds' in the US.
DeleteThe term 'Felony' is no longer in use in English Law. Apart from Felonious Treason I don't think the term was ever used in Scots law.
If Fred had invaded Sarge's house to steal property, I don't think that he or his family would have been too happy about it. To me there's no such thing as an honest burglar. They are just the same as the "scum of the earth". Perhaps Sarge had spent a bit too long associating with such people and getting chummy with them.
ReplyDeleteYP, of course Sarge and family would not. Any more than you or I would. However I think you are being very black and white about this one. If someone broke into my house and took the things of monetary value I would be annoyed but not in the way that I would be upset if someone came into the house and smashed everything up for the hell of it and made off with whatever they could exchange for drugs or cash. My sister-in-law had her car smashed open to steal a something the person would possibly get a fiver for. For better or worse the Freds of this world, however wayward, never used violence or carried a knife and never left a mess. I suspect they are now extinct.
DeleteMy feeling was that there was no chumminess but there was a certain mutual respect. Both had a job to do - just on different sides.
Interestingly I was told the other day that when criminals go into a house now the first thing they do is go to the kitchen and get a knife. Why? Because that is opportunistic use of a knife whereas carrying a knife when entering is far more serious.
A strange story but one to think about.
ReplyDeleteSounds like something out of Rumple of the Bailey!
ReplyDeleteAlphie
Now you come to mention it, Alphie, it does.
DeleteThat's an interesting story, and reminds me when a summer cottage I owned was broken into, and as far as I can tell was used by a trapper, or someone of that ilk. When we opened up in the spring, the brandy bottle was empty, and the bed sheets a tad odiferous. Other than that we found nothing out of place, let alone trashed. If he (she?) had used the dishes they had been washed and put back where they belonged.
ReplyDeleteHi David. I'm sure we have met on a blog before but I can't recall you visiting Eagleton Notes before. Welcome. Presumably the cottage was pretty remote and, as I'm not aware that we have trappers as such in the UK, I'm guessing it was situated in Canada. Yes, he or she could have washed the dishes but, presumably, not popped into a local shop for brandy. At least they shut the door!
DeleteIndeed, the cottage was on a lake in northern Ontario. I will follow your highly entertaining blog from now on.
ReplyDeleteDavid, one of my dearest friends from my youth (who died last year but whose birthday would have been today) lived in Sarnia. She and I once went north, but not as far as the wilderness, one year. I loved it.
DeleteSarnia is less than two hours from where I live, Graham, in Waterloo, so it is possible you may even have visited here when you came to see your friend.
ReplyDeleteDavid, Mo had a daughter in London and when we stayed there we often went up to and through Kitchener. It's a small world.
DeleteAnd sadly there are still plenty of people like Fred around in our world doing exactly what he did.
ReplyDeleteAmy, sadly there are even more using violence and wrecking houses in the process.
Delete(Finding this post a bit late because the email notification went into my spam folder again...) The conversation sounds like it could be from an old film - or a TV-series like for example 'Heartbeat' - of later date, but set in the 60s Yorkshire (and based on a series of novels written by an ex-policeman). I.e. it makes a good story; but in real life, no doubt still very unsettling for the victims (even if not including wrecking the whole place)... Actually, I can imagine similar conversations (although perhaps less polite) still taking place more often than we'd like to know, even involving more violent crimes. I.e. the police know who did it, and the criminals know they know; but there is no way to prove it.
ReplyDeleteMonica, I'm sure your final assumption is correct. However I doubt these days that there is such a mutual 'respect'. Life has got to real and too nasty for that. Cynical? Moi?
DeleteThere is no way that I would describe a burglar as good or honest. The man who broke into our house and stole my family jewellery was very neat and professional, he slid his hands into every drawer and box and removed anything of value. The items that he took had been gifts of love given over several generations and they meant a great deal to me. They were irreplaceable and I have not attempted to do so. Our alarm was on, but only downstairs, and the burglar broke in through an upstairs window. Now the whole house is alarmed and we have bought a safe, although there is no jewellery to go in it!
ReplyDeleteRosemary, despite the apparent lightness of my post, I fully understand how you feel. My family suffered in exactly the same way and the whole of my maternal family's heirloom jewellery was taken. It was never recovered and no one was ever apprehended.
DeleteI agreed with Librarian. Interesting post Graham and this was my original comment that I deleted.
ReplyDeleteThanks, Rachel. I agree with that point of view too.
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